Question Wii graphics card upgrade?

[Rob Cat]

Hello BitBuilt!

I've been digging through these forums for quite a while now, but I've just only recently joined, so I guess you can say I'm pretty new around here. Some of the projects I've been seeing and reading about are really impressive, and this seems like an awesome community to me.

I've been doing a lot of research recently, as I have a few Wii's that I'd like to repurpose into a portable. I have very little experience with electronics, but I'm gradually learning and hopefully will start trimming my first board soon. I'm definitely a measure twice/cut once kind of guy. I plan on asking some more specific questions soon, but I want to wait and make sure I've looked everywhere first.

In the meantime, I wanted to ask if there has been any research into upping the graphics capability of the wii. So far it seems like the best that can be done is bypassing any analog conversions and convert the digital signal from the GPU to hdmi or component. But this is still a 480 resolution (which is totally fine, even on a 7" screen). I guess I was wondering if anyone has tried either pushing the graphics card to a higher native resolution through software/drivers, or finding a programmable replacement for it with more juice. As I've said, I have very little electronics experience, so I'm sorry if I'm asking about something that is laughably unreasonable (and if I am, I'm glad you were able to have a laugh at my expense).

Looking forward to talking with all of you much more!

 

[JacksonS]

I don't know much about the Wii graphics hardware, but I know it's embedded in the same die that handles many types of IO and overall system functions. Too modify/replace it would require creating a whole new Wii motherboard to accommodate different hardware and probably reprogramming all the IO from the ground up. That is assuming there even is some programmable hardware capable of handling Wii graphics and communicating with the CPU.

 

[Rob Cat]

Hmm, well that's pretty interesting! I figured that even if there was possible replacement, it would be a ridiculous endeavor to program. I guess my only remaining speculation is if the resolution is limited by the driver or a physical hardware limit. I know that some computer graphics drivers restrict maximum resolution below what the card is actually capable of, but that's about the only bit of relatable knowledge I have.

BTW, I was reading your worklog on your 2.0 portable, and the whole build is really impressive.

 

[Shank]

Nope.
Unlike PC games, gc and wii games are not built with scalable internal resolution in mind. They were built specifically for the hardware they run on. Even if you were to run a gamecube on a hypothetical backwards compatible system with, lets say, about 50% more CPU and GPU power, the games still run exactly the same at the same resolution. More GPU power, CPU power, and RAM would all go to waste if the game isn't written in a way to take advantage of that. The games would need to be recompiled to take advantage of the added hardware, which would require the source code, which we will almost certainly never see.

Emulators like dolphin can render in higher internal resolution, but they operate completely differently.

 

[Rob Cat]

Ah, okay. That makes sense to me. I was thinking that maybe something like that would be handled by the ios. Thank you both for taking the time to explain!

 

[Stitches]

Nope.
Unlike PC games, gc and wii games are not built with scalable internal resolution in mind. They were built specifically for the hardware they run on. Even if you were to run a gamecube on a hypothetical backwards compatible system with, lets say, about 50% more CPU and GPU power, the games still run exactly the same at the same resolution. More GPU power, CPU power, and RAM would all go to waste if the game isn't written in a way to take advantage of that. The games would need to be recompiled to take advantage of the added hardware, which would require the source code, which we will almost certainly never see.

Emulators like dolphin can render in higher internal resolution, but they operate completely differently.

Any clue how Nintendont does it? I ask because certain games that have big FPS problems on a Gamecube (like Spyro Enter the Dragonfly) will run near perfectly on a Wii through Nintendont specifically. If the games can't take advantage of the boosted hardware due to programming constraints, what could cause this difference?

 

[BocuD]

Any clue how Nintendont does it? I ask because certain games that have big FPS problems on a Gamecube (like Spyro Enter the Dragonfly) will run near perfectly on a Wii through Nintendont specifically. If the games can't take advantage of the boosted hardware due to programming constraints, what could cause this difference?

Nintendon't doesn't run in "gamecube" mode. It runs under Wii mode which gives certain games the ability to take advantage of the boosted performance of the Wii, as well as for example use Wiimotes in gamecube games.

The description on GBAtemp explains it better then me, so:

Nintendont is a Wii mode homebrew to play gamecube games on Wii and WiiU vWii.

Nintendont is obviously not a modification of the MIOS, like DIOS MIOS (lite), because the vWii does not have a MIOS.
It is neither an emulator, because the Wii or vWii are not powerful enough to emulate GameCube games.
Nintendont is more like a bridge between an emulator and a virtual machine which runs Gamecube games natively.

Certain parts such as SI for controls, EXI for memory card and DI for data reads are emulated. The rest is just patched to match the newer Wii syscalls.

Source: https://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendont.349258/

 

[Stitches]

Nintendon't doesn't run in "gamecube" mode. It runs under Wii mode which gives certain games the ability to take advantage of the boosted performance of the Wii, as well as for example use Wiimotes in gamecube games.

The description on GBAtemp explains it better then me, so:

Source: https://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendont.349258/

I vaguely remember this. I guess some games are just optimised until they run and then just left.

 

[Rob Cat]

Well it seems like even if those games could be optimized further for fps, increasing their render resolution would be either impossible or pointless, because the output resolution forced by the wii would bottleneck any gains. It would actually have to downscale the image, which could look better or worse than native depending on the pixel density and downscaling algorithm used.

My original thought was that since component can output "hd" resolutions (even 600p would be a game changer), I was thinking that the wii could be pushed on the software side. I also assumed that the process that handles rendering resolution would be pretty high up in the hierarchy, since graphics processing is the last thing that happens before an image goes to the display. In other words, if you modify the physical output resolution of the wii, who knows what resolution the game will actually be. Many games respond pretty well to the 480i and widescreen settings, and those both have to be managed somewhere outside of the game itself.

I believe you all when you say it's impossible, btw. I just enjoy speculating about these things

 

[Aurelio]

The maximum resolution specified from Nintendo in their SDK is 720x480.