Question Wii GCVideo Analog Options

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Hiya! I have been puttering over what ways i can get the best looking video output for my melee setups on CRT/CRT Monitor, and given i cant use gamecube setups for tournament melee i'm trying to find some GCVideo wii solution, so far the most comprehensible project i've come across being the Fujiflex. That would work well for CRT Monitors, but i have multiple 480p/480i component CRTs that would definitely benefit from GCVideo, but i wouldnt want to convert HDMI to component on all of those setups, especially if it would incur any lag in the process.

TLDR; What options for analog Wii GCVideo output exist, namely over component?

Thanks! -May
 
Afaik analog GCVideos only output component or VGA, both of which the Wii can do natively with the same latency. You'd be paying $100-ish for maybe 5% better sharpening over the stock AVE.

A GCVideo will give vastly superior results with digital to digital in both quality and latency, but digital to analog is barely any better.
 
So the first, major thing you should do is make sure you have deflicker off. That will substantially increase the sharpness of the picture. You can force it off by forcing video mode to NTSC (or PAL) in nintendon'ts settings. Its also worth noting that basically every single analog to digital or digital analog video converter out there that does NOT scale is essentially 100% lag free. This is well documented, and tested by many people in many communities, including by Fizzi. Keep this in mind for planning video setups; it can be very useful information that can open up new doors.

As for the answer to your question, the results will really depend. For 480i, and a desired output of component, your video quality out of the Wii's stock AVE (the chip that converts the digital video bus to analog audio and video) is pretty much as good as you are going to get. You can output over HDMI via GC video, then convert to YPbPr or RGB through a video dac, but your results will be the same as the Wii's stock AVE. RGB or YPbPr video quality will be exactly the same on both, assuming your YPbPr decoding on your TV is accurate. (Some TVs are not accurate and benefit from an RGB mod to bypass the jungle, but thats the result of the jungle chip itself, rather than a reduction in video quality of the YPbPr format itself. Beyond the scope of this discussion)

480p is a little different. Apparently there is a bug in the Wii's AVE that makes the image less sharp. Extrems found a solution, and a patch is integrated into most USB loaders now. However, the patch as it is now only works on 1 version of the AVE chip. This chip is rumored to be more common in earlier revisions, but even for those its still a grab bag which one you will get. However, installing a GC video HDMI kit into a Wii bypasses the AVE itself, along with its aformentioned softening bug. If you run your HDMI output into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, you will bypass the 480p bug. However, you must find an HDMI to YPbPr converter that meets your video quality standards. They can be hard to recommend because they constantly go in and out of stock, and change designs and chips frequently. If you are using a 480p monitor that accepts VGA, an HDMI to VGA converter can be a cheap and very effective way to give it a 480p signal. If your monitor accepts 480p RGBS, you can use a sync combiner to combine H and V into Csync, assuming your monitor does not have issues with the missing sync pulse caused by combination logic propagation delay.

I must say tho, keep an eye on whatever 480p YPbPr CRTs you are using. Many (but not all) HD CRTs add a frame or more of latency during their scan conversion process. Some dual scan or multiformat monitors can scan the 480p video signal at a native 31khz, but they can be uncommon.

TL;DR:
-Turn off Deflicker
-For 480i YPbPr, directly output ypbpr from the wii, doesnt get better than that
-For 480p, if the 480p bug softens the image too much for your liking, you can bypass it with an HDMI install into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, with no latency penalty.
-ADCs and DACs will not add latency unless they are performing scaling or some form of video processing. Adding latency requires adding a framebuffer, and cheap simple non-scaling converters do not include them. If you cannot store video data before spitting it out, you cannot delay it; it passes through one pixel at a time without delay.



both quality and latency
Quality yes, but latency no. Non-scaling adapters do not add any latency. A good quality DAC conversion should be equal in quality to the Wii's AVE, 480p bug aside. But on the flipside, converting analog to digital, while latency free, usually results in some degree of video quality issues, as optimal sampling can be tricky.
 
So the first, major thing you should do is make sure you have deflicker off. That will substantially increase the sharpness of the picture. You can force it off by forcing video mode to NTSC (or PAL) in nintendon'ts settings. Its also worth noting that basically every single analog to digital or digital analog video converter out there that does NOT scale is essentially 100% lag free. This is well documented, and tested by many people in many communities, including by Fizzi. Keep this in mind for planning video setups; it can be very useful information that can open up new doors.

As for the answer to your question, the results will really depend. For 480i, and a desired output of component, your video quality out of the Wii's stock AVE (the chip that converts the digital video bus to analog audio and video) is pretty much as good as you are going to get. You can output over HDMI via GC video, then convert to YPbPr or RGB through a video dac, but your results will be the same as the Wii's stock AVE. RGB or YPbPr video quality will be exactly the same on both, assuming your YPbPr decoding on your TV is accurate. (Some TVs are not accurate and benefit from an RGB mod to bypass the jungle, but thats the result of the jungle chip itself, rather than a reduction in video quality of the YPbPr format itself. Beyond the scope of this discussion)

480p is a little different. Apparently there is a bug in the Wii's AVE that makes the image less sharp. Extrems found a solution, and a patch is integrated into most USB loaders now. However, the patch as it is now only works on 1 version of the AVE chip. This chip is rumored to be more common in earlier revisions, but even for those its still a grab bag which one you will get. However, installing a GC video HDMI kit into a Wii bypasses the AVE itself, along with its aformentioned softening bug. If you run your HDMI output into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, you will bypass the 480p bug. However, you must find an HDMI to YPbPr converter that meets your video quality standards. They can be hard to recommend because they constantly go in and out of stock, and change designs and chips frequently. If you are using a 480p monitor that accepts VGA, an HDMI to VGA converter can be a cheap and very effective way to give it a 480p signal. If your monitor accepts 480p RGBS, you can use a sync combiner to combine H and V into Csync, assuming your monitor does not have issues with the missing sync pulse caused by combination logic propagation delay.

I must say tho, keep an eye on whatever 480p YPbPr CRTs you are using. Many (but not all) HD CRTs add a frame or more of latency during their scan conversion process. Some dual scan or multiformat monitors can scan the 480p video signal at a native 31khz, but they can be uncommon.

TL;DR:
-Turn off Deflicker
-For 480i YPbPr, directly output ypbpr from the wii, doesnt get better than that
-For 480p, if the 480p bug softens the image too much for your liking, you can bypass it with an HDMI install into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, with no latency penalty.
-ADCs and DACs will not add latency unless they are performing scaling or some form of video processing. Adding latency requires adding a framebuffer, and cheap simple non-scaling converters do not include them. If you cannot store video data before spitting it out, you cannot delay it; it passes through one pixel at a time without delay.




Quality yes, but latency no. Non-scaling adapters do not add any latency. A good quality DAC conversion should be equal in quality to the Wii's AVE, 480p bug aside. But on the flipside, converting analog to digital, while latency free, usually results in some degree of video quality issues, as optimal sampling can be tricky.
Somehow I forgot to type the other half of my statement, I meant to say a GCVideo will have lower latency than one of those cheap and cruddy dongles that has the shitty scaler built in
 
So the first, major thing you should do is make sure you have deflicker off. That will substantially increase the sharpness of the picture. You can force it off by forcing video mode to NTSC (or PAL) in nintendon'ts settings. Its also worth noting that basically every single analog to digital or digital analog video converter out there that does NOT scale is essentially 100% lag free. This is well documented, and tested by many people in many communities, including by Fizzi. Keep this in mind for planning video setups; it can be very useful information that can open up new doors.

As for the answer to your question, the results will really depend. For 480i, and a desired output of component, your video quality out of the Wii's stock AVE (the chip that converts the digital video bus to analog audio and video) is pretty much as good as you are going to get. You can output over HDMI via GC video, then convert to YPbPr or RGB through a video dac, but your results will be the same as the Wii's stock AVE. RGB or YPbPr video quality will be exactly the same on both, assuming your YPbPr decoding on your TV is accurate. (Some TVs are not accurate and benefit from an RGB mod to bypass the jungle, but thats the result of the jungle chip itself, rather than a reduction in video quality of the YPbPr format itself. Beyond the scope of this discussion)

480p is a little different. Apparently there is a bug in the Wii's AVE that makes the image less sharp. Extrems found a solution, and a patch is integrated into most USB loaders now. However, the patch as it is now only works on 1 version of the AVE chip. This chip is rumored to be more common in earlier revisions, but even for those its still a grab bag which one you will get. However, installing a GC video HDMI kit into a Wii bypasses the AVE itself, along with its aformentioned softening bug. If you run your HDMI output into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, you will bypass the 480p bug. However, you must find an HDMI to YPbPr converter that meets your video quality standards. They can be hard to recommend because they constantly go in and out of stock, and change designs and chips frequently. If you are using a 480p monitor that accepts VGA, an HDMI to VGA converter can be a cheap and very effective way to give it a 480p signal. If your monitor accepts 480p RGBS, you can use a sync combiner to combine H and V into Csync, assuming your monitor does not have issues with the missing sync pulse caused by combination logic propagation delay.

I must say tho, keep an eye on whatever 480p YPbPr CRTs you are using. Many (but not all) HD CRTs add a frame or more of latency during their scan conversion process. Some dual scan or multiformat monitors can scan the 480p video signal at a native 31khz, but they can be uncommon.

TL;DR:
-Turn off Deflicker
-For 480i YPbPr, directly output ypbpr from the wii, doesnt get better than that
-For 480p, if the 480p bug softens the image too much for your liking, you can bypass it with an HDMI install into a non-scaling HDMI to YPbPr converter, with no latency penalty.
-ADCs and DACs will not add latency unless they are performing scaling or some form of video processing. Adding latency requires adding a framebuffer, and cheap simple non-scaling converters do not include them. If you cannot store video data before spitting it out, you cannot delay it; it passes through one pixel at a time without delay.




Quality yes, but latency no. Non-scaling adapters do not add any latency. A good quality DAC conversion should be equal in quality to the Wii's AVE, 480p bug aside. But on the flipside, converting analog to digital, while latency free, usually results in some degree of video quality issues, as optimal sampling can be tricky.
Appreciate the through reply!

I didnt know about the nintendont deflicker trick, and actually i thought deflicker was only for wii games so thats very helpful info!! :)

I mostly was posting this because my gamecube's component output is so much cleaner than any wii ive had, even ones i've VGA modded. That's mainly why i was curious about analog GCVideo but I'll check to see what disabling deflicker on 480i does, i would guess quite a lot.

As far as 480p goes, im eating good with a 32" 4:3 HD Tau, as pictured hehe. i also have a 14L5 that, works but needs more work to be tourney ready. What ill likely end up doing is a couple fujiflexes for those displays, and for the Tau i think i'll go from HDMI->VGA->YPbPr with a cheap hdmi dongle and a bitfunx VGA->YPbPr. As for my 14L5 i might actually try HDMI->HD-SDI given it's digital to digital an the option card is just there, idk much about SDI but ive been meaning to pickup one of those for a bit. If thats not a good option i'll go for HDMI->VGA->Sync combiner.
For the other displays i want as many CRT monitors as i can get my hands on, then just HDMI->VGA w fujiflex.

Appreciate the contributions regardless, when it comes to video quality theres SO many factors to consider so having some concrete answers helps a lot.

-May
 

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Appreciate the through reply!

I didnt know about the nintendont deflicker trick, and actually i thought deflicker was only for wii games so thats very helpful info!! :)

I mostly was posting this because my gamecube's component output is so much cleaner than any wii ive had, even ones i've VGA modded. That's mainly why i was curious about analog GCVideo but I'll check to see what disabling deflicker on 480i does, i would guess quite a lot.

As far as 480p goes, im eating good with a 32" 4:3 HD Tau, as pictured hehe. i also have a 14L5 that, works but needs more work to be tourney ready. What ill likely end up doing is a couple fujiflexes for those displays, and for the Tau i think i'll go from HDMI->VGA->YPbPr with a cheap hdmi dongle and a bitfunx VGA->YPbPr. As for my 14L5 i might actually try HDMI->HD-SDI given it's digital to digital an the option card is just there, idk much about SDI but ive been meaning to pickup one of those for a bit. If thats not a good option i'll go for HDMI->VGA->Sync combiner.
For the other displays i want as many CRT monitors as i can get my hands on, then just HDMI->VGA w fujiflex.

Appreciate the contributions regardless, when it comes to video quality theres SO many factors to consider so having some concrete answers helps a lot.

-May
Yeah the Gamecube component cable chip quality is heaps above the Wii AVE. Even with deflicker you can still see the difference clearly. If only the FPGA chips for GCVideos weren't so expensive............
 
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