My board is a complete replacement for the gamecube controller that can handle by itself 3DS sliders (and others too) without needing any external components.
@Doom show me more love and I'll see what I can do
Worklog Noah's Wiiner
- Thread starter Noah
- Start date
@Doom show me more love and I'll see what I can do
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 139
- Likes
- 405
- Portables
- 35+
IIRC he asked BadAss consoles for the KiCad files for his MEGAdrive V6.
It's not that I don't like the guy, it's that I don't like what he does. Portablizing, for the longest time, was a budgeted hobby that mainly teens and young adults would engage in, usually ones without money. Last I heard he charges like $50 for his controller boards which I wouldn't even spend on a normal controller unless it was a Hori or something
His board is also quite big which turned me right off from using it. The case I have is quite thin and doesn't have much room for more pointless boards I don't need inside.
In the end it's each to his own as you said, but portablizers aren't a community you should try and make vast riches off of because someone will come along and beat your product and it's price. Take Aurelio's controller boards for example. He is selling them to make a profit. However, he is selling them at such a fair price I don't think anyone will try to undermine the success he will have because there is very little profit margins from what I've heard AND it's going to cost less than what you could find controllers for online or at any retro gaming store.
Hey Noah, believe me when I say this that I in no way mean to start anything after you've dropped the subject, but I think you're giving an unfair assessment of my good friend and college. Ron (RDC) is perhaps the most influential person I've come across in the development of my skills and advancement in the portablizing community and as well as electronics in general. His contributions on the whole across a much wider spectrum than portablizing have been seen across the web on a scale you and I cannot realize.
Anything that you say can be proven as "low quality" I ask you to verify because there is nothing that has ever entered my shop (and this is based on dozens of projects over a 4 year period) that has been less than top notch, and any mistakes (which we all make them) have been acknowledged and fixed.
To my last point. If you think what he's charging for a board (after in some instances take over 50 hours of work to accomplish) I ask you to really consider what a man's time is really worth these days (yours included). Yes, the portablizing scene has always been made up of teenagers or those with little money, but if you think $50 is "vast riches" for the time we take out of our adult lives to devote these kinds of advances than your values are surely under bid.
I respect you man, I do. You've done a lot for many in the the years you've been involved with the community and I truly have appreciated the efforts you've made to keep it alive. But RDC has 8 years of life experience on me and I've got over 10 on you. Realize there is experience behind the numbers and that what we learn from these advancements is more valuable than a project that will be forgotten about in less than a year.
Again man, I'm not a drama King, I hate it with every bone of my body. But I have friends I stick up for and between him and Hail (and SS), I will always back as I've seen their true quality first hand.
"Give a man your benefit of the doubt, you still have doubt. Give a man your trust, you've got no doubt left to give."
pengy
.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2016
- Messages
- 118
- Likes
- 47
I agree with downing, RDC is not trying to make a large profit off the backs of kids. If you count his R&D time and the cost of components and the time to take everything off controller boards and put it back on the new ones, he's really getting nothing more than hourly pay at that point.
That being said, $50 for a controller board is a lot to swallow if you are on a tight budget, and those people (including me this time around) need only modify a controller themselves and put in the work to make it happen. Nothing's being forced on anyone and I think RDC is providing a great option to people who might want it by making these boards available.
That being said, $50 for a controller board is a lot to swallow if you are on a tight budget, and those people (including me this time around) need only modify a controller themselves and put in the work to make it happen. Nothing's being forced on anyone and I think RDC is providing a great option to people who might want it by making these boards available.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2016
- Messages
- 1,525
- Likes
- 4,075
- Location
- standing up
- Portables
- please do not ask!!!! I will NOT respond
I don't think he's done anything to advance portablizing. I may be missing something here, but all I've known is that he makes proprietary stuff, and the only time I've really spoken with him, he wouldn't help me. I believe what he'd said was he didn't want his info getting out because then anyone could replicate it. What that told me is that his priorities are keeping what he has to himself, to either maintain a steady profit or monopoly. I could be wrong, so feel free to present any information I may be missing, but I did not get the community-spirit vibe that I've come to adore about other people I've worked with.
As far as what he charges, us poor people consider it a lot. We are natural dumpster divers, and most of us are still in school and still have to squeeze pennies. For making commissions, sure, because then we've got the money to spend. But the majority of portablizers start with whatever they have in their pocket and whatever they can get their hands on, and they generally have to pick their battles financially.
For example; let's take a practical look at the N64 chip breakout board. I'm told it's ~$50. From the pictures I've seen, the breakout points don't look to be much bigger than the actual IC points, and it doesn't appear to have any joystick conversion method. Either way, it's an impractical product, because the CNT-NUS does not require any supporting components aside from the crystal and 2 supporting resistors, and can be cut the size of the chip, with the pins/traces wired to directly. And it's been verified to work 100% with the transfer pack, as well as the basic joystick conversion chips. This information has been publicly available since at least 2009. So in this case, the component cost is, or rather should be, only be the cost of the board. The official N64 board is also single layer, so the majority of R&D is transferring over the preexisting design and making some changes. I'm not sure how much research went into it considering the amount of unnecessary components that are retained, likely for no sake other than posterity.
On the joystick conversion point, that has developed a lot over the last few years, in both circuit size as well as the addition of proper software deadzones to compensate for the 3DS ghosting. But the component cost has remained low, to where anyone can do it for as low as $10 (and in most cases, lower.) So we're talking about $10 + original N64 controller cost, which has to be factored in regardless for a donor CNT-NUS chip. And that's a one time expenditure, you'll already have a programmer for any future endeavors.
I've personally never been able to justify the price when I can do the same thing better for free and teach other people at the same time, so I cannot personally vouch for or against the quality. But if it quacks like a duck, and a lot of people agree it's a duck, my general thesis would entertain the idea that it is in some form, classified as fowl.
Beyond that, I've had multiple reports from end users who are dissatisfied with the quality of the product received. Just today I was shown an previously unopened product from him that still had very noticeable amounts of flux on the board, and upon inspection revealed that it had a lot of leftover solder balls. Potential problems in the right circumstances, and not aesthetically pleasing for sure, especially against the white PCB. Additionally, the soldering was determined to most likely be done by hot-air, which is a rookie technique for production. This can become problematic for the end user for several reasons, but I digress.
Additionally, with proper technique, swapping over a chip and dropping supporting components should in no cases ever take 50+ hours. I don't know how much product he is moving, but as someone who's worked with professionals, who flux, clean, and meticulously align and solder much more demanding circuits than any controllers we've encountered, I can safely say that that is absurd. Whatever is taking so long may be part of the questionable quality I've heard about.
My final verdict is that I don't have all the facts. If he's helped you develop your skillset and if he's a good friend to you, then I've got no beef with him. My 10 years of experience have taught me that there's no value in worrying about who people associate with, and that holding any negative opinions serves no value. These are just my thoughts based on what I've been privy to over the course of the last few months. I'd say if anything, don't try to pass anything off as top notch until you've seen top notch.
So: there are a few things that everyone else needs to take away from this. The first is that you can charge whatever you want for your product, because it's your product. No matter how original or derivative, no matter how solid or flimsy it might be, it's yours to sell for whatever you'd like. The second point is that once your work is public, it is free to be scrutinized by whomever decides to have an opinion. If Noah and a large amount of other people are posting their thoughts about it, even if they're negative, they're worth considering at least once. And finally, in all things: Let the buyer beware, and don't forget the timeless adage of "stupid pays more."
Either way, the truth will always become clear. If his products are hot garbage, people will stop buying them. If they are expensive, people will buy the newer, cheaper solutions. If they are fine, then there's nothing to worry about, and the work will speak for itself.
As far as what he charges, us poor people consider it a lot. We are natural dumpster divers, and most of us are still in school and still have to squeeze pennies. For making commissions, sure, because then we've got the money to spend. But the majority of portablizers start with whatever they have in their pocket and whatever they can get their hands on, and they generally have to pick their battles financially.
For example; let's take a practical look at the N64 chip breakout board. I'm told it's ~$50. From the pictures I've seen, the breakout points don't look to be much bigger than the actual IC points, and it doesn't appear to have any joystick conversion method. Either way, it's an impractical product, because the CNT-NUS does not require any supporting components aside from the crystal and 2 supporting resistors, and can be cut the size of the chip, with the pins/traces wired to directly. And it's been verified to work 100% with the transfer pack, as well as the basic joystick conversion chips. This information has been publicly available since at least 2009. So in this case, the component cost is, or rather should be, only be the cost of the board. The official N64 board is also single layer, so the majority of R&D is transferring over the preexisting design and making some changes. I'm not sure how much research went into it considering the amount of unnecessary components that are retained, likely for no sake other than posterity.
On the joystick conversion point, that has developed a lot over the last few years, in both circuit size as well as the addition of proper software deadzones to compensate for the 3DS ghosting. But the component cost has remained low, to where anyone can do it for as low as $10 (and in most cases, lower.) So we're talking about $10 + original N64 controller cost, which has to be factored in regardless for a donor CNT-NUS chip. And that's a one time expenditure, you'll already have a programmer for any future endeavors.
I've personally never been able to justify the price when I can do the same thing better for free and teach other people at the same time, so I cannot personally vouch for or against the quality. But if it quacks like a duck, and a lot of people agree it's a duck, my general thesis would entertain the idea that it is in some form, classified as fowl.
Beyond that, I've had multiple reports from end users who are dissatisfied with the quality of the product received. Just today I was shown an previously unopened product from him that still had very noticeable amounts of flux on the board, and upon inspection revealed that it had a lot of leftover solder balls. Potential problems in the right circumstances, and not aesthetically pleasing for sure, especially against the white PCB. Additionally, the soldering was determined to most likely be done by hot-air, which is a rookie technique for production. This can become problematic for the end user for several reasons, but I digress.
Additionally, with proper technique, swapping over a chip and dropping supporting components should in no cases ever take 50+ hours. I don't know how much product he is moving, but as someone who's worked with professionals, who flux, clean, and meticulously align and solder much more demanding circuits than any controllers we've encountered, I can safely say that that is absurd. Whatever is taking so long may be part of the questionable quality I've heard about.
My final verdict is that I don't have all the facts. If he's helped you develop your skillset and if he's a good friend to you, then I've got no beef with him. My 10 years of experience have taught me that there's no value in worrying about who people associate with, and that holding any negative opinions serves no value. These are just my thoughts based on what I've been privy to over the course of the last few months. I'd say if anything, don't try to pass anything off as top notch until you've seen top notch.
So: there are a few things that everyone else needs to take away from this. The first is that you can charge whatever you want for your product, because it's your product. No matter how original or derivative, no matter how solid or flimsy it might be, it's yours to sell for whatever you'd like. The second point is that once your work is public, it is free to be scrutinized by whomever decides to have an opinion. If Noah and a large amount of other people are posting their thoughts about it, even if they're negative, they're worth considering at least once. And finally, in all things: Let the buyer beware, and don't forget the timeless adage of "stupid pays more."
Either way, the truth will always become clear. If his products are hot garbage, people will stop buying them. If they are expensive, people will buy the newer, cheaper solutions. If they are fine, then there's nothing to worry about, and the work will speak for itself.
pengy
.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2016
- Messages
- 118
- Likes
- 47
Sounds like I may not have all the info either, though I still respect RDC. He has explained the majority of the ps2 controller wiring to me via pm so that I can do it myself instead of using his board, and that was pretty cool.
SS, if there's not one already, would you consider doing a quick post somewhere about setting up 3ds sliders, or if there is, could you link it here? Thanks.
SS, if there's not one already, would you consider doing a quick post somewhere about setting up 3ds sliders, or if there is, could you link it here? Thanks.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2016
- Messages
- 1,525
- Likes
- 4,075
- Location
- standing up
- Portables
- please do not ask!!!! I will NOT respond
I'd have to research the latest boards. I talked with a few different people who worked on it a few years ago, and there are multiple different approaches to a complete controller solution in development. It's on my list, whatever comes first, lel.
We've been addressing the 3DS sticks on a case by case basis. @Aurelio's board fixes the issues for GameCubes. My board will fix the issues for N64. We can always look at doing a PS2 controller replacement at some point. I have never owned a PS2 so I really don't know much about it.
Having a separate board just adds to the mess in a portable. It's better to have everything in one board which helps cut down space usage a lot.
As far as the stuff above goes, ShockSlayer really hit the nail on the head with his post. I don't believe that RDC's boards really have any added benefit especially when the controller boards themselves can be cut down to sizes smaller than what his board redesigns are. It also won't make sense in a short while because of the products on the horizon. The GameCube controller replacement and the Nintendo 64 controller replacement will work wonders for the portablizing community in a number of ways.
1st Party N64 controllers (the very ones that RDC needs to produce his boards) are costly. They aren't ridiculous or anything but they do cost more than GameCube controllers and for most people 3rd party isn't really an option. Our solutions will hopefully stop the rising cost of the controllers since they won't be vanishing in such rapid rates. The same thing happened with Tchay and the GameCube. People could argue that he didn't affect the price too much but he really did. Before he mad the CCube the price of a GC for parts was like $10. After he bought up a supply of them on eBay the price did go up a considerable amount. We have more of an affect on the market then most people think. Consoles are another story but controllers are something that we can do something about.
As far as being on a budget goes, what added benefit do RDC's boards offer that a cut up controller doesn't? Large solder pads for relocating the buttons? Yeah, that's great if you want to have nice looking internals. However, most people would just rather spend the money on some wire and solder to IC legs.
In the end I am not one to say buy his stuff or don't. As I recall, a similar thing happened years ago on ModRetro with BadAss Consoles and yet his site is probably one of the most successful retro modding stores in existence today.
I'd rather just leave it at that so I don't have to split the thread or anything like that but if we wish to continue the discussion then I'll go ahead and split it so that I can get back to progress on me Wiiner
Having a separate board just adds to the mess in a portable. It's better to have everything in one board which helps cut down space usage a lot.
As far as the stuff above goes, ShockSlayer really hit the nail on the head with his post. I don't believe that RDC's boards really have any added benefit especially when the controller boards themselves can be cut down to sizes smaller than what his board redesigns are. It also won't make sense in a short while because of the products on the horizon. The GameCube controller replacement and the Nintendo 64 controller replacement will work wonders for the portablizing community in a number of ways.
1st Party N64 controllers (the very ones that RDC needs to produce his boards) are costly. They aren't ridiculous or anything but they do cost more than GameCube controllers and for most people 3rd party isn't really an option. Our solutions will hopefully stop the rising cost of the controllers since they won't be vanishing in such rapid rates. The same thing happened with Tchay and the GameCube. People could argue that he didn't affect the price too much but he really did. Before he mad the CCube the price of a GC for parts was like $10. After he bought up a supply of them on eBay the price did go up a considerable amount. We have more of an affect on the market then most people think. Consoles are another story but controllers are something that we can do something about.
As far as being on a budget goes, what added benefit do RDC's boards offer that a cut up controller doesn't? Large solder pads for relocating the buttons? Yeah, that's great if you want to have nice looking internals. However, most people would just rather spend the money on some wire and solder to IC legs.
In the end I am not one to say buy his stuff or don't. As I recall, a similar thing happened years ago on ModRetro with BadAss Consoles and yet his site is probably one of the most successful retro modding stores in existence today.
I'd rather just leave it at that so I don't have to split the thread or anything like that but if we wish to continue the discussion then I'll go ahead and split it so that I can get back to progress on me Wiiner
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2016
- Messages
- 294
- Likes
- 146
RDC didn't seem to want to sell me something if i recall
Yes. From what I've heard the issue with them is that they don't act like a true analog stick would and only have a range of 90. I have played much besides a few minutes of Melee so I can't say for sure yet though
new case memes
High-res glory
Working on an N64 commission at the same time as this so it's coming along quickly since I can do both cases at the same time. Wiring and such has been done for quite a while but I am now switching to analog sticks rather than sliders.
High-res glory
Working on an N64 commission at the same time as this so it's coming along quickly since I can do both cases at the same time. Wiring and such has been done for quite a while but I am now switching to analog sticks rather than sliders.
Wulf
.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2016
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 18
This Wiiner has left me torn.
On the one hand, I want to comment on how small it is and how comfortable it appears to be in the palm of one's hand. On the other, I don't want to skim through five pages of comments to see if those comments would be this Wiiner's sloppy seconds.
I am curious about its circumference though. Has it ever been circum-sized?
On the one hand, I want to comment on how small it is and how comfortable it appears to be in the palm of one's hand. On the other, I don't want to skim through five pages of comments to see if those comments would be this Wiiner's sloppy seconds.
I am curious about its circumference though. Has it ever been circum-sized?
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2016
- Messages
- 1,525
- Likes
- 4,075
- Location
- standing up
- Portables
- please do not ask!!!! I will NOT respond
all I know is noah keeps his wiiner down stairs
Handy!
