Solved Potential simple solution for Wii to VGA?

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Hey guys,

So, after a few days worth of brainstorming I believe that I may have come up with an interesting solution for getting VGA video out of a Wii.

Now, this will still require extra hardware, but I'm hoping that it will work.

Now, I am sure that you are all familiar with this bad boy

(Credit Ashen)

And I know that many of you will be familiar with the process of using this board as a sync separator in order to separate a single sync into hsync and vsync.

I am also sure that many of you are aware of the fact that PAL region Wii's support RGB video natively. With this being the case, couldn't we just use the board above as a sync separator (using composite as sync) in conjunction with the native PAL RGB output in order to get around the diminished quality that stems from converting Y PB PR to VGA? Would it be compatible with the Wii's native RGB output? If so, this could potentially work with any sync separator.

In addition to this, it is my understanding that the Wii hardware is identical across all regions and the region locks/changes are implemented through software. So therefore we could theoretically change the region on any Wii to PAL in software thus enabling native RGB output as well. I already know this last part is possible due to having done this in the past so that I could use my NTSC Wii on my PVM through RGB.

Let me know what you guys think. Would this be possible? I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I honestly just discovered this for myself and I really think it could work.
 
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ShockSlayer

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please do not ask!!!! I will NOT respond
No clue if 50hz VGA is gonna work on ebay screens
 

Aurelio

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Hey guys,

So, after a few days worth of brainstorming I believe that I may have come up with an interesting solution for getting VGA video out of a Wii.

Now, this will still require extra hardware, but I'm hoping that it will work.

Now, I am sure that you are all familiar with this bad boy

(Credit Ashen)

And I know that many of you will be familiar with the process of using this board as a sync separator in order to separate a single sync into hsync and vsync.

I am also sure that many of you are aware of the fact that PAL region Wii's support RGB video natively. With this being the case, couldn't we just use the board above as a sync separator (using composite as sync) in conjunction with the native PAL RGB output in order to get around the diminished quality that stems from converting Y PB PR to VGA? Would it be compatible with the Wii's native RGB output? If so, this could potentially work with any sync separator.

In addition to this, it is my understanding that the Wii hardware is identical across all regions and the region locks/changes are implemented through software. So therefore we could theoretically change the region on any Wii to PAL in software thus enabling native RGB output as well. I already know this last part is possible due to having done this in the past so that I could use my NTSC Wii on my PVM through RGB.

Let me know what you guys think. Would this be possible? I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I honestly just discovered this for myself and I really think it could work.
Using that (or a simple sync separator, that one is overkill) is possible and it works, but it's going to be interlaced only.
 
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Using that (or a simple sync separator, that one is overkill) is possible and it works, but it's going to be interlaced only.
Hmmm... Meaning 15khz VGA only. Which will lead to some compatibility issues with many screens... Outside of that little obstacle, does it really make that much of a difference in video quality on a small screen? I mean, the image quality would still be leagues better than anything Composite video could hope for... And we would not need to contend with the whole software resolution change debacle since everything will be interlaced.

I believe this leads me to my next questions. Does PortablizeMii have the built in ability to change the region of the Wii it is loaded onto? If not, would it be possible to implement such a feature?
 

Aurelio

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Hmmm... Meaning 15khz VGA only. Which will lead to some compatibility issues with many screens... Outside of that little obstacle, does it really make that much of a difference in video quality on a small screen? I mean, the image quality would still be leagues better than anything Composite video could hope for...
It's definitely better than composite, but you can see quite clearly the difference with progressive video.

I believe this leads me to my next questions. Does PortablizeMii have the built in ability to change the region of the Wii it is loaded onto? If not, would it be possible to implement such a feature?
No and it's not going to be implemented because it's pretty easy to mess up the installation and brick the Wii. If you want to do it you've to use tools such as AnyRegion Changer
 
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It's definitely better than composite, but you can see quite clearly the difference with progressive video.
If that's the case then I guess I will just wait for the GC Video instead. :/

No and it's not going to be implemented because it's pretty easy to mess up the installation and brick the Wii. If you want to do it you've to use tools such as AnyRegion Changer
That's understandable. Any region Changer will work just fine for me. I will likely play around with this idea for a bit. I will post if I find any success.
 

Noah

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If that's the case then I guess I will just wait for the GC Video instead.
BBVideo should be released in a few weeks if all goes according to plan. It's a Wii exclusive version of GCVideo with some improvements to the board and a smaller footprint as well.
 
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BBVideo should be released in a few weeks if all goes according to plan. It's a Wii exclusive version of GCVideo with some improvements to the board and a smaller footprint as well.
That's great news. I should have figured you guys would be all over this already. Is there a reservation list for it? Or will it be sold here in the store? I'm definitely down for two of them.
 

Noah

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That's great news. I should have figured you guys would be all over this already. Is there a reservation list for it? Or will it be sold here in the store? I'm definitely down for two of them.
No reservations needed, might be a pre-order though. It will be sold in the store.
 
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Ahh the infamous LMH1251. Ashen's 2012 ModRetro thread and TI Datasheet.

As Aurelio pointed out, I'm not understanding why Redmagnusx is using this as a simple sync seperator for PAL consoles.
Just use the board as it was intended to do : a YPbPr to RGBHV converter. This will then work for NTSC consoles since the LMH1251-based board has a YPbPr input and RGBHV out to your chosen monitor.
but it's going to be interlaced only.
Interlaced only? I'm assuming you are referring to Redmagnusx's proposal to use a sync seperator and PAL Wii RGB out (240p/480i) which then you are absolutely correct. However, the LMH1251 chip should natively support 480p out.

@Aurelio, @Shank, and I discussed the option of YPbPr to RGBHV extensively on TeamSpeak. This option would be catered for less advanced users who are less adept at soldering to ~10 small vias and working with signals prone to possible interference for GCVideo. However, after lengthy analysis we made a collective judgement that the option was not viable due to the minimal cost difference between the YPbPr/RGBHV converter and GCVideo. So in conclusion, GCVideo is king if you want the best quality video possible for your portable.
 
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Stitches

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I feel an experiment coming on

Or not. No-one wants to ship these to Australia. fek
 
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Ahh the infamous LMH1251. Ashen's 2012 ModRetro thread and TI Datasheet.

As Aurelio pointed out, I'm not understanding why Redmagnusx is using this as a simple sync seperator for PAL consoles.
Just use the board as it was intended to do : a YPbPr to RGBHV converter. This will then work for NTSC consoles since the LMH1251-based board has a YPbPr input and RGBHV out to your chosen monitor.
The reasoning is stated directly in the OP. The purpose is to use the native wii rgb signal without the terrible conversion done by the LMH1251. This also comes with the benefit of having a very nice picture while not having to deal with the resolution changes between 480i and 480p made by the wii on the software level since it is all interlaced.

The reason I used the lmh1251 is because it is what I have lying around. But yes I could use a lm1881, which I do not currently have, for the same purpose. Also, I did state in the OP that any sync separator should work.

@Aurelio, @Shank, and I discussed the option of YPbPr to RGBHV extensively on TeamSpeak. This option would be catered for less advanced users who are less at soldering to ~10 small vias and working with signals prone to possible interference for GCVideo. However, after lengthy analysis we made a collective judgement that the option was not viable due to the minimal cost difference between the YPbPr/RGBHV converter and GCVideo. So in conclusion, GCVideo is king if you want the best quality video possible for your portable.
Right, a conclusion that was never once questioned and acknowledged by myself within this very thread.

Essentially, my aim was to find a cheap and simple solution (thread title) that is currently available to everyone that will still result in an excellent picture. For most people the BBVideo is vaporware, meanwhile the native RGBs with sync separator is something that can be done right now. I have absolutely no interest in converted YPBPR, nor have I ever which is why I was trying to find a native way to make this work based off of my past experience with these video signals. Now that I know it will work (confirmed on my test setup), the only thing really stopping me from just taking this route is the lack of TFT Displays that accept 15khz VGA.
 

Stitches

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native wii rgb signal
Native PAL Wii RGB signal does not support 480p so is inferior to a properly converted 480p RGBHV signal. Also you have to do some shenanigans with region unlock and that is undesirable.

wii on the software level since it is all interlaced.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

terrible conversion done by the LMH1251
LMH1251 does not do "terrible conversion". It's analog to analog colorspace conversion. No detail is lost compared to an analog to digital or digital to analog conversion. It is probably the cheap board design that screws up the video. Newer revisions of the Mayflash converter have been found to have better video quality and are used extensively by Smash players.

lack of TFT Displays that accept 15khz VGA.
That's the whole point isn't it? This is why people want VGA and GCVideo. If you weren't limited by screens, why not use the 7 inch YPbPr screen with pristine quality?

Yeah sure, I'm totally going to buy that 100% legit Mayflash adapter that'll definitely work perfectly. Mhmm.
People have been buying from that source and have had no problems with it.
 

Stitches

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Native PAL Wii RGB signal does not support 480p so is inferior to a properly converted 480p RGBHV signal. Also you have to do some shenanigans with region unlock and that is undesirable.


I don't understand what you are trying to say here.


LMH1251 does not do terrible conversion. It's analog to analog colorspace conversion. No detail is lost compared to an analog to digital or digital to analog conversion. It is probably the cheap board design that screws up the video. Newer revisions of the Mayflash converter have been found to have better video quality and are used extensively by Smash players.


That's the whole point isn't it? This is why people want VGA and GCVideo. If you weren't limited by screens, why not use the 7 inch YPbPr screen with pristine quality?


People have been buying from that source and have had no problems with it.
Maybe. I'm just really reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaally sketchy about anything shipping from China that doesn't have the official product logo on it. Nevermind I'm dumb, the official site matches this listing. Sorry Pineapples.
 
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Native PAL Wii RGB signal does not support 480p so is inferior to a properly converted 480p RGBHV signal. Also you have to do some shenanigans with region unlock and that is undesirable.
I am painfully aware of all of this. Again, I was looking for a simple solution that is available right now.

For context, all of my retro game consoles are set up through rgb scart and were rgb or hdmi modded by me. I have an Xrgb 3 gscartsw, framemeister, OSSC, the whole nine. I'm well versed in the different video standards, so please drop the condescension.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
The wii changes resolution depending on the software being played. Much like how the gamecube did. This is what I mean. If the signal is interlaced and only interlaced, then a line double is not needed IF the TFT display accepts 15khz VGA.

LMH1251 does not do "terrible conversion". It's analog to analog colorspace conversion. No detail is lost compared to an analog to digital or digital to analog conversion. It is probably the cheap board design that screws up the video. Newer revisions of the Mayflash converter have been found to have better video quality and are used extensively by Smash players.
I honestly do believe it is the boards I have because the ypbpr to rgbhv conversion I am seeing is atrocious. But you knew what I meant.

That's the whole point isn't it? This is why people want VGA and GCVideo. If you weren't limited by screens, why not use the 7 inch YPbPr screen with pristine quality?
The whole point is to have better video quality than composite. There are compatible screens out there and I happen to have one. The issue with mine it that it is a 7 year old screen that has since been replaced by two other revisions.
 
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Shank

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480i RGB does indeed give you a cleaner picture than 480i composite, but the real significant improvement for LCD screens comes from progressive video. I would think it would be pretty hard to find a screen that accepts interlaced 50hz RGB video, seeing as the only way to know if it accepts it or not would be to buy it and test.

For 7" and above, you can get a screen with native component, which is the dream. For under that, there isn't really an option right now other than to be patient or use composite. It sucks, but thats just the way it is right now.

Im with pineapples on the stance about the YPbPr to VGA solution. When that chip is implemented correctly, there is no loss in quality or latency. However, we have yet to find a single product that has a complete and proper circuit for that chip. That's why everybody, (including me) has said that YPbPr to VGA converters are crap: because all the ones available now are not properly designed.

People have been buying from that source and have had no problems with it.
IIRC, didn't you said people had no problems on CRTs, but had issues on LCDs and Capture Cards?
 
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IIRC, didn't you said people had no problems on CRTs, but had issues on LCDs and Capture Cards?
I don't think I ever commented on the functionality of the Mayflash YPbPr to VGA converter on LCDs and capture cards. For smash purposes, CRT computer monitors crunch through anything and display the picture perfectly. I probably was talking about something else since there really is no point of using the converter on nonportable LCDs and capture cards.

@Redmagnusx. Are you using the Mayflash cable version or the box version? IIRC, the cable version has two revisions and has been known to have video quality issues. Maybe @ttsgeb can comment on the quality since he seems to have experience with the 2nd revision cable as documented in the ModRetro thread.
 
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