Discussion N64 Noob Thread

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ShockSlayer

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The original idea with the "2 port play and charge" is ...-snip-... superstition for safety when we all switched to Li-Ion/LiPo batteries. Any way, people in this community have continued parroting this old diagram. It appears on every incarnation of these forums. It's very outdated.
The original idea behind the diagram was to provide a safe way for people to wire their portables. It's no more outdated than the DPDT switch it calls for - the fact of the matter is that in current portablizing, there is no new, catch-all solution that 13 year old kids can understand how to handle outright.

If you read the forums for 5 minutes, you're likely to run into the main reason behind taking the safe approach. Threads like "are these batteries okay" where people are trying to buy the classic "seems legit" 1400000mAh AAs and other retards asking if they really need a PROTECTION CIRCUIT.

I've been around long enough to see other people's portables blow up, batteries catch fire...I've seen people step on soldering irons, use kapton tape as a heatsink, put random voltage into components for "science"...etc. The point is that there is a learning curve to get over: long before people can pull off a single port charge and play, they need to understand more basic things, like when and where the voltage goes.

You really can't compare modern electronics designed by actual engineers to portables designed by apes with no actual knowledge, and you shouldn't discredit a safer approach unless you're ready to accept responsibility for the impending/potential doom(and not the sexy @Doom we all want ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).) People can and will do everything wrong, and every situation is different.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of good information in this thread, but people have raped my diagram over and over because it's a timeless classic, guaranteed to work 100% of the time.

Anyways, my advice would be to NOT post all this shit in the noob threads, as they're easily the worst threads on BitBuilt, where good information goes to die and where misinformation starts. I would highly advise reformatting this into something more general purpose that can be used for all consoles, since basically everyone's wanted charge and play ever since the GBA SP came out.
 
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Ground is ground is ground is ground. You can pull ground from just about anywhere, a convenient pad near the composite line is probably your best option. I'd use 22 gauge or thicker for screen power lines.
So just a small wire jumping from the video output ground to any ground on the board?

Initially I tried just cutting and stripping old video cables, from a PS2 I believe, assuming that way I could just plug the yellow,white,red connectors into the tv to test if it still works. but I couldn't get it to work.

Do the copper strands that are wrapped around the yellow,white,red insulated video cables need to be wired to ground as well? Or are they just to prevent interference?
 

GingerOfOz

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When you say "ground on the board" could you be more specific? I think I'm misunderstanding the question.

And yes, the copper around the wires are just there to help block interference.
 
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The original idea behind the diagram was to provide a safe way for people to wire their portables. It's no more outdated than the DPDT switch it calls for - the fact of the matter is that in current portablizing, there is no new, catch-all solution that 13 year old kids can understand how to handle outright.

If you read the forums for 5 minutes, you're likely to run into the main reason behind taking the safe approach. Threads like "are these batteries okay" where people are trying to buy the classic "seems legit" 1400000mAh AAs and other retards asking if they really need a PROTECTION CIRCUIT.

I've been around long enough to see other people's portables blow up, batteries catch fire...I've seen people step on soldering irons, use kapton tape as a heatsink, put random voltage into components for "science"...etc. The point is that there is a learning curve to get over: long before people can pull off a single port charge and play, they need to understand more basic things, like when and where the voltage goes.

You really can't compare modern electronics designed by actual engineers to portables designed by apes with no actual knowledge, and you shouldn't discredit a safer approach unless you're ready to accept responsibility for the impending/potential doom(and not the sexy @Doom we all want ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).) People can and will do everything wrong, and every situation is different.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of good information in this thread, but people have raped my diagram over and over because it's a timeless classic, guaranteed to work 100% of the time.

Anyways, my advice would be to NOT post all this shit in the noob threads, as they're easily the worst threads on BitBuilt, where good information goes to die and where misinformation starts. I would highly advise reformatting this into something more general purpose that can be used for all consoles, since basically everyone's wanted charge and play ever since the GBA SP came out.
I'd like to point out that in your quote you cut out the part about the superstition being for NiMh cells memory effect on capacity when not fully discharging and recharging. And that I've mentioned many times that Lithium cells can be very dangerous but with a protection board you'd be hard pressed to blow something up.

If you read the forums for 5 minutes....
I'd also like to point out that I've been lurking all the incarnations of these forums for as long as you yourself have been posting in them.

You really can't compare modern electronics designed by actual engineers to portables designed by apes with no actual knowledge, and you shouldn't discredit a safer approach unless you're ready to accept responsibility for the impending/potential doom....

Anyways, my advice would be to NOT post all this shit in the noob threads, as they're easily the worst threads on BitBuilt, where good information goes to die and where misinformation starts. I would highly advise reformatting this into something more general purpose that can be used for all consoles, since basically everyone's wanted charge and play ever since the GBA SP came out.
I'm not dying to make a better thread because then every noob will PM me because they didn't read through a thorough thread. I just barely had a guy PM me to ask me if the UltraVGA will work on his PS2.

Honestly I saw a guy in need who was shut down immediately by another guy who didn't have the answers any way. And I just so happened to be ironing out the kinks in my current project's charging system. I also just so happened to find this really great charging board that seems to be the answer to all my problems and wanted to share an alternative to somebody in need. I do ramble and my posts were bloated with hypothetical math. But you are right, this is a waste of time posting all this shit in this thread. I can almost guarantee this noh_mercy guy will never finish a portable just like 90% of the members on these sites. It's a waste of time to encourage people to work on projects like these because they are "apes with no actual knowledge -SS 2017". The safest thing for the unwashed masses is not the 2 port play and charge its using a television and their house's mains to power there game consoles.

I'll just go ahead and delete my contributions to this thread as penance for questioning the status quo.
 
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I'd like to point out that in your quote you cut out the part about the superstition being for NiMh cells memory effect on capacity when not fully discharging and recharging. And that I've mentioned many times that Lithium cells can be very dangerous but with a protection board you'd be hard pressed to blow something up.



I'd also like to point out that I've been lurking all the incarnations of these forums for as long as you yourself have been posting in them.



I'm not dying to make a better thread because then every noob will PM me because they didn't read through a thorough thread. I just barely had a guy PM me to ask me if the UltraVGA will work on his PS2.

Honestly I saw a guy in need who was shut down immediately by another guy who didn't have the answers any way. And I just so happened to be ironing out the kinks in my current project's charging system. I also just so happened to find this really great charging board that seems to be the answer to all my problems and wanted to share an alternative to somebody in need. I do ramble and my posts were bloated with hypothetical math. But you are right, this is a waste of time posting all this shit in this thread. I can almost guarantee this noh_mercy guy will never finish a portable just like 90% of the members on these sites. It's a waste of time to encourage people to work on projects like these because they are "apes with no actual knowledge -SS 2017". The safest thing for the unwashed masses is not the 2 port play and charge its using a television and their house's mains to power there game consoles.

I'll just go ahead and delete my contributions to this thread as penance for questioning the status quo.
Please don’t remove your contributions. There will be plenty of noobs coming through and attempting things they probably shouldn’t, but there are also be solid people who are interested in learning and having these sources of information can be very valuable.

I’ve been reading your posts and got one of those boards on its way so I can mess around with it as well. If it works well and is simple enough that could be a great find for everyone! If it’s not so easy then it’ll be nice for the people who understand it.

The reason I love this community is it gives you the base to create something and build it how you want with the components you want. Although this makes it a little hard for people with no experience to have every step laid out for them, it helps to deter people that want that and allow those who are serious about learning to get the help they need.

I know people don’t want to post lots of information on certain subjects because the amount of noobs that sweep through here would be very annoying, but it’s nice to have for the rest of us.
 

ShockSlayer

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I'd also like to point out that I've been lurking all the incarnations of these forums for as long as you yourself have been posting in them.
I don't know who you are and now I don't care, because if your first reaction is to delete all of your posts then you're no better than bacteria. If you've been around as long as you say you have, then you should know exactly what I mean. I literally said there's good information here, but it's retarded to discredit something that works because something that "seems to be the answer to all [of your] problems" exists.

You can do whatever the hell you want but don't fool yourself into believing that M in your avatar stands for martyr.
 
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Miceeno, initially I thought you were being partly sarcastic, but then I see that you actually deleted your posts:(. The information you posted here was invaluable to me and I truly appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. At no point did I think you were rambling with your posts, nothing was bloated, and I'd only welcome more detail if you could give it. I genuinely want to make a portable(multiple even), I genuinely want to understand what to look for in picking out a bms & charger circuit, and I'm currently too far financially invested in this project to not complete it:D(promises were made). I've been researching and lurking for over 6 months before registering, and In my mind I had 97% of my portable planned out. The one [most important] thing that threw a wrench into my plans was figuring out 'charge and play' w/ 1 port. I've read other solutions that people have done, but so far yours is the New Testament in comparison.

Also please post the results of testing 2 of those red boards to double your charging current, whenever that happens. I am really hoping that they ideally cooperate!
 
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@link270
My posts are gone from this thread because as SS pointed out they are inappropriate. I'm considering starting a thread in another category but I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to this hobby. The time to make a detailed write up cuts into my modding time which is generally less than 3 hours a week.

@ShockSlayer
I don't care if you don't respect me because I've never had respect for you. The bulk of your portables are embarrassing to look at. I can understand that you made most of them when you were younger but they've always look half-assed to me. I realized that I stepped on your pride when I called your (apparently) DPTP switch method archaic, but as I prefaced the post the topic is controversial.

As for the M, it was 20 minutes in photoshop to mimic the N64 "N". When I finished it I realized Mupen64 already took this idea so I've never been happy with it (As well as I screwed up on the red parts). I'll change it just for you. 5 minutes in photoshop gets a rough draft of a Rare logo version.

@noh_mercy
Please don't take offence to me saying you probably won't finish your projects. Good luck with them, I sincerely hope you finish your current one. It took me many attempts to finish a portable that I wasn't too embarrassed to post to the community.
 
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@link270
My posts are gone from this thread because as SS pointed out they are inappropriate. I'm considering starting a thread in another category but I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to this hobby. The time to make a detailed write up cuts into my modding time which is generally less than 3 hours a week.

@ShockSlayer
I don't care if you don't respect me because I've never had respect for you. The bulk of your portables are embarrassing to look at. I can understand that you made most of them when you were younger but they've always look half-assed to me. I realized that I stepped on your pride when I called your (apparently) DPTP switch method archaic, but as I prefaced the post the topic is controversial.

As for the M, it was 20 minutes in photoshop to mimic the N64 "N". When I finished it I realized Mupen64 already took this idea so I've never been happy with it (As well as I screwed up on the red parts). I'll change it just for you. 5 minutes in photoshop gets a rough draft of a Rare logo version.

@noh_mercy
Please don't take offence to me saying you probably won't finish your projects. Good luck with them, I sincerely hope you finish your current one. It took me many attempts to finish a portable that I wasn't too embarrassed to post to the community.
I actually like your new avatar. It looks nice and clean.
 

Stitches

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@link270
My posts are gone from this thread because as SS pointed out they are inappropriate. I'm considering starting a thread in another category but I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to this hobby. The time to make a detailed write up cuts into my modding time which is generally less than 3 hours a week.

@ShockSlayer
I don't care if you don't respect me because I've never had respect for you. The bulk of your portables are embarrassing to look at. I can understand that you made most of them when you were younger but they've always look half-assed to me. I realized that I stepped on your pride when I called your (apparently) DPTP switch method archaic, but as I prefaced the post the topic is controversial.

As for the M, it was 20 minutes in photoshop to mimic the N64 "N". When I finished it I realized Mupen64 already took this idea so I've never been happy with it (As well as I screwed up on the red parts). I'll change it just for you. 5 minutes in photoshop gets a rough draft of a Rare logo version.

@noh_mercy
Please don't take offence to me saying you probably won't finish your projects. Good luck with them, I sincerely hope you finish your current one. It took me many attempts to finish a portable that I wasn't too embarrassed to post to the community.
This is a pretty childish way to deal with the issue. You've now potentially sabotaged people unrelated to SS, and you look like a cock head for doing it.

Is there a backup that an admin can go through to find and repost the useful information? Or is the wayback machine the only way to undo this Russian middle finger?
 

ShockSlayer

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Noah

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@ShockSlayer
I don't care if you don't respect me because I've never had respect for you. The bulk of your portables are embarrassing to look at. I can understand that you made most of them when you were younger but they've always look half-assed to me. I realized that I stepped on your pride when I called your (apparently) DPTP switch method archaic, but as I prefaced the post the topic is controversial.
Oh, so you don't have respect for the person who basically allowed you to make all of your portables? Say what you will about SS's earlier portables, but without him more than half of the advancements made in this hobby would be non-existent.

What have you done for the hobby? If you've been around for "all of the incarnations" as you put it why not contribute more to the community? You're nothing but a leech, here to take what you can't give. Taking down the information you've provided proves that you're just a spoiled ass who has a real superiority complex. Telling a new member he's not going to finish his project is just plain dumb and to be honest if you're just going to sulk around here and try and put people down then perhaps you have no place here.

If you plan on changing your attitude then feel free to stick around and join in on the cool shit we're doing with the N64. Otherwise, you can just click "Log Out" and forget this site ever existed because if you're going to continue to act the way you are now, I don't want you here. Feel free to go back to ModRetro where the real innovation happens.

For anyone who wants to see MicREEEEEEEEEno's posts, here's everything he posted:

Whats the standard for n64port batteries nowadays?

Do people still use the lion camcorder 7.4v batteries? (as made popular by bacteria) or have we found something better?
As of right this second and while the supply lasts the best source for 18650 batteries is this eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LG-36V-...688902?hash=item2831974486:g:nKUAAOSwuspY9YNZ

He is selling genuine LG and Samsung batteries that are leftover from the hoverboard fad. I've already bought 4 packs from this guy for various projects. They test right around 2300mah per cell and are $1.75 per cell. You have to break the packs apart but its worth it for the price.
The price is okay, but the Panasonic cells from the BOM are 3400mAh. You'd be sacrificing almost a third of the possible battery life for a few dollars saved.
Is that whats printed on the side of the battery or the actual tested capacity? The only cells Ive tested anywhere near that are LG 3000mah cells. They range from 2930mah to 3080mah per cell. And those cells cost $8 per cell. 90% of the knock offs claim outrageous capacities all they way up to 9000mah and they test around 300mah to 700mah.

The leading manufacturers make two kinds of cells. Power cells that are around 2000-2500mah and can deliver 5 amps per cell. And storage cells that are around 3000mah that deliver around 1-2 amps per cell.
Send me a link. I'll gladly test these batteries.

EDIT:

I assume this is a legit genuine source for those Panasonic 3400mah batteries. I will buy these and test them. The seller rants about others being fake and the reviews all say these are real.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Genuine-...argeable-battery-JAPAN-NCR18650B/262994104327

If these are good I will use them in my current portable otherwise I will pull from the pile of 80 LG 2200mah cells that I have been rotating through my electric lawn mower.
Just got my speakers and audio amp

problem is I have no idea how to wire up these speakers.. Can someone help me out?

Theres no marks indicating + or - so im not sure where to put that.. and there are 4 solder points so that confusing to me as well

Heres a picture:

View attachment 3184
On the ones with 4 pads, check them with a meter. You should get 8 ohms across the two you need to use. And as Stitches said polarity doesn't matter BUT be sure to wire them all the same. If you invert one it will produce an inverted sound wave that will cancel out the other sound wave. You wont get silence because the universe isn't perfect but you will get lower volume output.

If you really wanted to get scientific about it you can apply voltage (extremely small amout in this case, with full sized speakers I use a 9 volt battery) to the terminals of the speaker. If the cone moves forward the terminal you applied positive voltage to is the positive terminal. If the cone moves backward (into the basket) the terminal you applied positive voltage to is the negative terminal. Although I doubt you'll be able to see the cone move on these speakers without applying too much power, melting the voice coil.
Both I would assume. The oldies use them nearly exclusively because they work well and hold the charge they claim to.
So I've tested those cells. My testing methodology is what is generally accepted in the E-Bike and EV communities. Which is to use this inexpensive LiPro Balance Charger / Discharger:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Imax-B6-LCD-Screen-RC-Lipo-NiMh-Li-io-n-LiFe-Battery-LiPro-Balance-Charger/350782413357?_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226&_trkparms=aid=555014&algo=PL.DEFAULT&ao=1&asc=44941&meid=75c77cf0df84417d8ddc675e954db692&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1&

First I charge all the cells at 1C. In the case of unknown C rates I usually charge at .5C of what is printed on the cells. So for these Panasonic 3400mah my charge rate was 1.7amps. I smart charged each cell individually to max capacity (4.2v). Then I discharge at 1amp to empty (3.0v). Record the measured mah and then charge at the newly found C rate. Then I check the measured mah going back into the battery to verify the margin of error.

This is a video of a guy testing random batteries to show you how the tool works:


So these Panasonic 3400mah NCR18650B MH12210 Made in Japan batteries are as follows:
Cell 1 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1961
Cell 2 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1959
Cell 3 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1958
Cell 4 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1967


My sample size was small (4 cells) but I'd say they consistently test 1998mah. These are holding 59% of what they claim. At $5.75 per cell I'd say this is a bad value. You could argue the legitimacy of the batteries I bought or the quality of the LiPro tool but I urge everybody on this forum to at least question the "rated" capacity of the cells they are buying.

There are some LG that are rated at 3000mah that people show tests anywhere between 2800mah-2950mah. I'd consider looking into those before these Panasonics even though they are in this BOM thing. I will track some of these down and test them as well. I will probably start a thread in the Battery section to record a variety of the cells I've tested.

EDIT: While testing further I found my tester has a 2 hour safety on the discharge. So on all the Chinese batteries I've tested that are less than 2000mah it doesn't matter. These cells have a much higher capacity and I will update the actual capacity when I finish testing. My bad. I should have tested the voltage after the tests to be certain that I was going all the way down to 3.0 volts but my meter's leads are worn out and the new ones haven't arrived yet.

It should have been more suspicious that all the cells measured the exact same on the capacity. I assumed that they were capacity matched but even the best cells aren't all dead nuts with each other.
The LG cells are something like LG 3000mah HG2 High Drain (browns). I will look into this further later and provide a link of what I buy.

As for the Panasonics, I've been talking to the seller and he/she is certain they are authentic. They mentioned that they test capacity at a discharge rate of .25 amps per cell. Whereas I tested at 1 amp per cell. So will test these cells again a provide an update.

EDIT:

I bought some LG HG2 3000mah cells from the same seller as is listed in Gmans BOM for the Panasonic cells.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/4x-LG-HG2-18650-3000mAh-20A-HighDrain-IMR-Rechargeable-Lion-Battery-INR18650HG2-/121676605235?hash=item1c547da733:g:6qgAAOSw4DJYgD93&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae99b3341-6579-11e7-8fae-74dbd180f82c%7Cparentrq%3A2cd8d58715d0aa1406dcdf91ffebc32f%7Ciid%3A25

I will test these cells as well.
So these Panasonic 3400mah NCR18650B MH12210 Made in Japan batteries are as follows:
Cell 1 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1961
Cell 2 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1959
Cell 3 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1958
Cell 4 - Discharge mah = 1998, Charge mah = 1967
Here's the final results of my testing:

Panasonic 3400mah NCR18650B MH12210 (Green)
Cell 1 - [email protected]
Cell 2 - [email protected]
Cell 3 - [email protected]
Cell 4 - [email protected]

The seller told me they test the cells at 0.25 amps to get the cells rated capacity. While I don't agree with this (because the use-case for say a 2s usb battery bank is 1-2 amps per cell) here's the result for 1 cell I tested. It took so long (like 12 hours per cell) I didn't bother testing any other cells.

Cell 1 [email protected]

So at a 1 amp discharge rate these cells are testing at 85% rated capacity. And at a 0.2 amp discharge rate the one cell tested at 91% rated capacity.


I also tested the LG cells:

LG 3000mah HG2 High Drain LGDBHG21865 0334K302A4 (Brown)
Cell 1 - [email protected]
Cell 2 - [email protected]
Cell 3 - [email protected]
Cell 4 - [email protected]

These cells at a 1 amp discharge rate are also testing at 85% rated capacity.
Hi noob here, is there any way to make a single port 'charge and play'? I saw the charging diagram by ShockSlayer and I might go through with that but I strongly prefer having just 1 port.
It's controversial.

The "2 port play and charge concept" was drawn up along time ago in this community when lithium batteries were a new scary technology and nickle batteries where the norm. The original idea with the "2 port play and charge" is to get full cycles out of the NiMH batteries to prevent battery memory. Li-Ion/LiPo batteries aren't susceptible to memory but early on they were known to catch fire. This is because cheap Chinese products are very bad. Early extra capacity Chinese PSP batteries had a reputation for burning people's legs as they carried them in their pockets. And even more recently the hoverboard fad disappeared overnight because the Chinese knockoff batteries and chargers where burning peoples houses down. So the "2 port play and charge" was kept around out of superstition for safety when we all switched to Li-Ion/LiPo batteries. Any way, people in this community have continued parroting this old diagram. It appears on every incarnation of these forums. It's very outdated.

In all modern electronics whether it be your phone, tablet, laptop, etc. are simply directly connected to a battery (with bms) that is connected to a smart charger. There is no disconnecting and isolating the battery to charge. Probe around your laptop or phone with your multimeter next time you have it apart (or am I the only one who is constantly screwing around inside my electronics). This system is exactly what you are looking for, a "1 port play and charge" setup.

This is where things get controversial. This setup is perfectly safe as long as your charging power supply is up to the task. If you cannot supply enough current to simultaneously charge the batteries and power the connected device you can cause a fire. It won't happen instantaneously so don't worry. The problem is if the connected device is drawing more power than you are putting into the battery, the battery will slowly drain and get hot. If you get the battery hot enough it CAN start a fire.

Ever notice how when your phone is below 30% battery and you are actively using it while charging but its not gaining percentage and getting hot? This is because the smart charger provides more amps to the battery at the start and then it tapers off when you get to 70-80% charge. Whereas when your phone is at 70% and you are actively using it while charging but its still able to gain percentage. This is because the circuitry in your phone is able to provide excess current to the phone when the battery is a higher percentage. And when you are at a lower percent more of the current has to go to the battery thus not allowing the phone to get enough power. If the phone isn't getting enough power from the charger it will draw from the battery causing slow to no charging. When you are in this state you can cause your phone to light up.

When considering power for a portable you have to overbuild the charging. The phone/tablet/laptop has the advantage of low power states on the CPU causing it to draw less based on usage. The charging circuitry on the phone/tablet/laptop wasn't intended to provide enough power to charge the battery from empty while powering the phone/tablet/laptop running at full tilt. This is why the phone/tablet/laptop can charge very fast if you leave it alone while charging. Whereas if you are using the phone/tablet/laptop while charging it charges significantly slower. Your portable N64 doesn't have low power states so you have to build the charging portion to be capable of charging the batteries and running the system from a dead battery. If you do this it can be very safe to build the "1 port play and charge" method.

View attachment 3847

On my current portable I'm using this board. I haven't fully tested this one but I've used similar boards in the past. The trick to getting enough power to make it play and charge is to use a 12 volt 5 amp power supply. Anything lower and it doesn't provide enough power to make the batteries charge while playing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent...2S-Packs-18650-lithium-Satellite/311721987212

View attachment 3848
Thank you for this informative reply.

Another noob question, how do you figure how much current is needed to charge the battery and power the n64+screen?

This red board performs the same function as the green input/output protection boards I see on the BOM right? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/162028917428?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT)

Would the charging requirements change depending on the batteries I use? There are a bunch of 3.7v batteries with different mAh values, does that have any bearing on the 5Amp requirement for the charger, or if I connect a few in parallel would that change anything?


So far this is what I'd like to use in my build now:
Battery:
http://www.batteryspace.com/polymer...wh-10a-rate-ul-listed-un38-3-passed-ndgr.aspx

Charger(12v 5A):
https://www.amazon.com/TNTE-12-Volt-Power-Supply/dp/B009ZZV6TA

Smart charging board
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent...18650-lithium-Satellite/311721987212#shpCntId
Can someone green-light me on these components?
The simplest way to figure your required charging current is to start with deadish batteries then play and charge. If the battery voltage is rising over time you are providing enough power to play and charge. Worst case play and charge only works properly above a certain battery percentage.

The green board is a BMS only. The red board is a BMS combined with a Smart Charger. If you use the red board you don't need the green board. The only thing I haven't tested with the red board is if it can handle a 2s2p configuration with the batteries. It's advertised for both a 2s and 2s2p configuration but I haven't tested it's charging output. Worst case if you want to go with a 2s2p configuration you can run two red boards in parallel with each other running a 2s configuration on each.

The 5 amp requirement on the charger is more of a safety. The red board can only provide so many amps to charge this is the bottleneck. If it was designed for a 2s configuration and you are running at a 2s2p configuration you aren't going to charge the batteries quick enough for a play and charge. I haven't thoroughly tested this particular board for this application yet (so I don't know the max charging amperage). I'm planning on running one board in a 2s2p configuration but if it's not enough charging current then I will go to two boards running 2s each.

You're chosen battery claims to be rated at 5000mah. If you see my previous posts in this thread you will see that there's discrepancies between rated and tested capacity on all batteries. When you charge a battery you generally charge at 0.5C - 1C (some cases as high as 2C). Or in the case of this cell you can charge at 2.5amps to 5 amps. You need two of them to make 7.4v so the smart charger has to be responsible for 5 to 10 amps at 7.4 volts or 37 to 74 watts. A 12v 5amp charger can provide 60 amps. I'm fairly certain the red smart charger board wasn't designed for 5000mah battery packs so it probably can't charge a pack like that at 1C. I bet the red board was designed for two 2500mah cells and it safely charges them at 0.5C. So the red board probably pulls something like 9.25 - 18.5 watts. I plan to test this further.
Ok so I read your previous posts and see that you have tested these batteries (PANASONIC NCR18650B) and their actual capacity is around 2900mah, I may just go with these since they are tested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121611468285?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Now how can you tell if this red board is probably unable to charge those 5000mah at 1C, is it something that you have to test or is it something you can see from the specs? If its by looking at the specs of the board, what do you look for?

Also what other boards have you used in the past that you have tested that function the same as this red board?

I think I'll just pick up 2 batteries and 1 board in 2s configuration. The PANASONIC NCR18650B seems popular around here. And if I go with these plus a 12v 5A powersupply I should be set right?

But theoretically if I did find a board that could supply power for 2 of those 5000mah batteries in 2s configuration, Would a 12v 5A charger be sufficient because its in the range of 37-74 Watts or would I need a charger that at least uses 74 watts? For example say I picked a 12V 10A power supply would that be allowed?
My guess for whether or not the red board can charge a 5000mah cell at 1C is based on the fact that the average REAL cell is 2500mah. The name brand manufacturers are struggling to barely get a 3000mah cell. There is a possibility that the 5000mah LiPo cell that you've referenced is two 2500mah cells glued together. This is fine but some would argue that without a BMS this is unsafe but since they where made together their capacities should be matched and safe enough. Any way, the red board is advertised in the pictures in a 2s2p configuration so it is possible that it can handle 5000mah per cell at 1C. (Looking at it again it's also advertised as "Unlimited Parallel", lol). I'll eventually get around to testing this red board as I've got it in the middle of my current project (in a 2s2p configuration). In the meantime I will look for some specs or a datasheet on some of the parts.


If you can find a better Smart Charging BMS board I'd love to see it. This is the best one that I've found. In the past I have used a BMS to charge the cells. If you apply power to the charging side of a BMS it will charge the batteries at constant voltage and constant amperage. The BMS will charge the cells until they reach 4.2 volts then disconnect the cells (as this is the overvoltage protection feature). The problem with this set up is you can only charge up to around 70% capacity because a Smart Charger will taper off the amps thus reducing battery temperate. (See my charging graph in previous posts in this thread.) I used this as a quick and dirty solution to my Nintendo Sixty 4or the WiN XL portable because this was a portable designed to soak up parts. I used Ultrafire 3000mah rated cells (900mah tested) in a 2s2p configuration and it gets 40 minutes battery life. In my original Nintendo Sixty 4or the WiN portable I used a stand alone BMS and separate Smart Charging PCB. I cannot find this smart charging any more but I do have pictures. In this portable I used Tenergy 2200mah rated cells (1700mah tested) in a 2s configuration and it gets around 105 minutes battery life.

Here's a link of somebody testing N64 power draw:
http://modretro.com/xen/index.php?threads/n64-power-draw-time-lapse.2802/

In that thread it looks like the N64 + 3.5" screen and audio amp at full volume are drawing around 7-9 watts. Also the N64 stock PSU is rated at 18.51 watts (at 120V input) if you do the math or 26 watts if you believe whats printed on it. The N64 psu is overbuilt to prevent voltage drop when the N64 peaks.

Napkin math puts my mention portables at 14 watts for the N64TW XL and 7 watts for the N64TW. That screen on the bigger one is extremely power hungry. I had a lot of trouble with the inverter on it causing electromagnetic interference on everything.

So assuming all of these things lets just for argument sake say your portable requires 12 watts to operate. A 7.4v 5000mah battery pack requires 37 watts to charge at 1C. If the red board CAN supply supply 37 watts then the portable is leaching 12 watts leaving 25 watts for the battery to charge at. So your batteries will then be charging at 0.676C (1 hour 29 minutes play and charge time, from dead to fully charged**). In this scenario the 12 volt 5 amp power supply rated at 60 watts but probably closer to 45 watts (assuming a 75% efficiency rating) should be adequate.

If we assume the red board can only charge a 7.4v 2500mah battery at 1C (18.5 watts). Then the portable is leeching 12 watts leaving 6.5 watts to charge the batteries. This would put the 2500mah pack at 0.35C (2 hours 51 minute play and charge time, from dead to fully charged**) and the 5000mah pack at 0.18C (5 hours 33 minute play and charge time, from dead to fully charged**).

This simplest way to figure the red board's charging rate would be to charge some cells with known capacities from dead to full and measure the time it takes to charge. I do have some ammeters that I can rig up as well. I have all the parts at my disposal to test so I will get to this eventually. The hardest part of this test to waiting around for the red charging led to turn green. I will try to get to this this weekend.

**Assuming none of the charging power if converted to heat, which of course is impossible.
**Also assuming my math is even half correct.
**Probably multiply these times by 1.33333333 to assume a 75% charging efficiency with 25% converted to heat. So more like 2 hours, 3 hours 45 minutes, and 7 hours 20 minutes respectively on the play and charge times from dead to fully charged.

View attachment 3853

View attachment 3854
Preliminary testing on this red board shows the red board is capable of safely handling play and charge.

As you can see from the pictures below the power draw from the 12v 5amp power supply is 9.1 watts when the system is powered off and the batteries are charging from empty (3.0 volts per cell). When I power the system on the power draw goes up to 22.1 watts from the 12v 5amp power supply. If I monitor the voltage at the batteries I don't see a voltage drop when the system powers on. I do see the batteries steadily ticking up .001 volts every 5 seconds or so whether or not the system is powered on.

It appears the red smart charger is capable of isolating the batteries from the power draw of the system while they charge. It also appears that for my battery (7.4v 5860mah) a 9.1 watt charge is equivalent to 0.21C. So the estimated charge time regardless of playing while charging is right around 4 hours and 45 minutes.

Red Smart Charger BMS combo board.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent...2S-Packs-18650-lithium-Satellite/311721987212

Batteries charging from 3.0 volts per cell with portable off.

View attachment 3865

Batteries charging from 3.0 volts per cell with portable turned on. This power draw includes the N64, Ultra64, 480p VGA driver and screen (no audio amp yet).

View attachment 3866

I didn't take a picture but with the charger board bypassed and just the N64, Ultra64, 480p VGA driver and screen attached the power draw from the 12v 5amp power supply was at 12v and 1.05 amps (or 12.81 watts).
So the red board charges all capacity 7.4v batteries with 1.2A? And the tp5100 link says its programmable charge current max is 2A. So the tp5100 should charge the batteries quicker right?
Yes the tp5100 will charge faster when the system is off. No the tp5100 will charger slower when the system is on.

The tp5100 doesn't have a connection for the middle of the battery pack so it can't balance the cells while charging. So if you run the tp5100 you may want to run a BMS as well. Also the tp5100 one doesn't have a voltage out terminal like the red board. So your power draw will leech from the charging cells whereas the red board seems to isolate the cells and bypass power through while charging.

In my portable the power draw is 13 watts. The red board is providing 9 watts to my batteries whether or not the system is drawing its 13 watts of power. The tp5100 will provide 14.8 watts to the batteries while the system is off but when the power is on the portable will draw 13 watts from the charging cells leaving 1.8 watts to slowly charge the cells if at all.
My current setup doesn't seem to to draw more than 2 amps at 12 volts. It does peak at 4.5 amps when I plug the power supply into the system. That's normal for all electronics. I'd say if you have more than 3 amps at 12 volts you will probably be ok.
So it took 6 hours and 40 minutes to charge my 7.4v 5860mah battery pack. So I'd say this red board charges at around 0.9-1.0 amps. The last hour of the charge the amp draw slowly ticked down to 0. So that means this red board is in-fact a smart charger and is capable of safely charging lithium batteries by tapering down the amps in the final stage of charging.

Also something to note. It does appear that this red board disconnects the batteries during charging. If I check the continuity between B+ and Vout they are connected until power is applied to Vin. At this point continuity between B+ and Vout is broken. Further testing shows it's quick to reconnect them when you disconnect power from Vin. I've only had one occasion (out of 20) so far of the switch from wall power to battery power being slow enough for the N64 for freeze up.

I'm considering doubling up the red board so I'm running two 2s batteries in parallel each with their own red board (instead of one red board in 2s2p). If the red boards play nice in parallel I will double my charging current.
 
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