Discussion Batteries

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Ok so reading through this thread has got me really confused

I'm trying to make my first portable and the batteries are obviously for me really confusing

I got the batteries and PCB from the BOM

I was just wondering how I would wire them up( if someone has a diagram you would be a life saver) I am planning on using 4 batteries.

And I see people talking about circuits when it comes to low battery indicator and charge and play? I'm confused from the diagram that was given because I can't understand it. Do I use perfboard or something? I'm just asking as to how I physically make the circuits? Thanks, for replying and reading through this entire request whoever you are. And sorry for the long post. It's just hard for me to understand things unless I'm given a big explanation and some diagrams/ pictures of things. Im a visual learner so whenever I see pictures it help me out a lot. Again sorry for long post.
 

jefflongo

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Ok so reading through this thread has got me really confused

I'm trying to make my first portable and the batteries are obviously for me really confusing

I got the batteries and PCB from the BOM

I was just wondering how I would wire them up( if someone has a diagram you would be a life saver) I am planning on using 4 batteries.

And I see people talking about circuits when it comes to low battery indicator and charge and play? I'm confused from the diagram that was given because I can't understand it. Do I use perfboard or something? I'm just asking as to how I physically make the circuits? Thanks, for replying and reading through this entire request whoever you are. And sorry for the long post. It's just hard for me to understand things unless I'm given a big explanation and some diagrams/ pictures of things. Im a visual learner so whenever I see pictures it help me out a lot. Again sorry for long post.
Here is a popular and relatively charge and play setup


Assuming you are trimming the board (the stock regulators will not work on less than 12v, you will want to use a 2 series 2 parallel configuration. Lithium ion batteries like the 18650 are 3.7v batteries. When you run 2 batteries in series, you add the voltage. When you add batteries in parallel, you add the capacity. So essentially what you are doing is getting 2 sets of batteries that are in series to double the voltage and running those two sets in parallel to double the capacity.

This diagram shows a 2 series 1 parallel configuration. This is the protection circuit from the BOM that I believe you have. So what is happening here is that the positive terminal of one battery is wired to the B+ pad of the PCM, and the negative terminal of the other battery is wired to the B- pad. The remaining terminals of the batteries are wired to the COM (common) terminal. All the red and black lines are just wires. The effect is something like this:



You can see how these batteries are wired in series. If you wanted to add a second set series batteries in parallel with this, You would wire them the exact same way.

That would look something like this


You can either solder 8 wires to the PCM or you can solder wires between the batteries then have only 3 wires going to the PCM. Note that because because the PCM in the BOM doesn't do balancing, you would probably want to charge both sets of batteries fully before wiring them together so that the sets aren't at different voltages which could cause damage.

If you aren't confident in your abilities with batteries, you could always get something like this for a 2s2p configuration. This already has a PCM built in so you would just pop the batteries in and be done with it, although it is a little bulky.

It is possible to have a single port charge and play which is outlined in this thread, but it is not as straight forward and a bit more dangerous for a beginner. 18650s are dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. I'd recommend you read that thread anyway because there's a lot of useful information in there.
 
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Here is a popular and relatively charge and play setup


Assuming you are trimming the board (the stock regulators will not work on less than 12v, you will want to use a 2 series 2 parallel configuration. Lithium ion batteries like the 18650 are 3.7v batteries. When you run 2 batteries in series, you add the voltage. When you add batteries in parallel, you add the capacity. So essentially what you are doing is getting 2 sets of batteries that are in series to double the voltage and running those two sets in parallel to double the capacity.

This diagram shows a 2 series 1 parallel configuration. This is the protection circuit from the BOM that I believe you have. So what is happening here is that the positive terminal of one battery is wired to the B+ pad of the PCM, and the negative terminal of the other battery is wired to the B- pad. The remaining terminals of the batteries are wired to the COM (common) terminal. All the red and black lines are just wires. The effect is something like this:



You can see how these batteries are wired in series. If you wanted to add a second set series batteries in parallel with this, You would wire them the exact same way.

That would look something like this


You can either solder 8 wires to the PCM or you can solder wires between the batteries then have only 3 wires going to the PCM. Note that because because the PCM in the BOM doesn't do balancing, you would probably want to charge both sets of batteries fully before wiring them together so that the sets aren't at different voltages which could cause damage.

If you aren't confident in your abilities with batteries, you could always get something like this for a 2s2p configuration. This already has a PCM built in so you would just pop the batteries in and be done with it, although it is a little bulky.

It is possible to have a single port charge and play which is outlined in this thread, but it is not as straight forward and a bit more dangerous for a beginner. 18650s are dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. I'd recommend you read that thread anyway because there's a lot of useful information in there.
I think I would take the battery holder thank you for this it really filled in a lot of questions I had

I was wondering how you would put a low battery indicator and charge port with the battery holder


I think for my first portable Ima skip the charge and play until I'm more confident and have more knowledge about certain things

Oh and you said that the battery holder comes with a PCM installed, is it a good one?
I mean again I'm not comfortable with batteries so I don't want the thing to blow up since ima be using it a lot

But again THANK YOU ALOT For taking the time to explain I really appreciate it man
 
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You can see how these batteries are wired in series. If you wanted to add a second set series batteries in parallel with this, You would wire them the exact same way.

That would look something like this

-snip-

You can either solder 8 wires to the PCM or you can solder wires between the batteries then have only 3 wires going to the PCM. Note that because because the PCM in the BOM doesn't do balancing, you would probably want to charge both sets of batteries fully before wiring them together so that the sets aren't at different voltages which could cause damage.

If you aren't confident in your abilities with batteries, you could always get something like this for a 2s2p configuration. This already has a PCM built in so you would just pop the batteries in and be done with it, although it is a little bulky.

It is possible to have a single port charge and play which is outlined in this thread, but it is not as straight forward and a bit more dangerous for a beginner. 18650s are dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. I'd recommend you read that thread anyway because there's a lot of useful information in there.
Hi,

I am currently working on my first Wii portable.
My first objective is the power supply.
I read a lot about protection circuits and batteries in general, but I do not fully understand the charging principle.
The circuit diagram I am talking about is this one, but I will use Li-ion batteries instead:



As seen in the picture, the positive line of the charge is connected to the positive terminal on the PCM. I thought that when charging current flows the opposite direction, so this would not work. Could you clarify this? Also is this charger and PCM combination any good?
[1] https://www.amazon.de/Ladegerät-zellige-Li-Ion-Li-Poly-Akkus-schwarz/dp/B005D77PTO/ref=sr_1_2?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1532295454&sr=1-2&keywords=7.4+li-ion+charger
[2] https://www.amazon.de/Li-Ion-Lithiu...30&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=2s+Protection+Li-ion
OR
[3] https://www.amazon.de/LaDicha-Lithium-Batterie-Ladegerät-Überladung-Überentladung/dp/B077RVF96F/
 
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Hi,

I am currently working on my first Wii portable.
My first objective is the power supply.
I read a lot about protection circuits and batteries in general, but I do not fully understand the charging principle.
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/2S-B...m-Battery-8-4V-Short-Circuit/32746810221.html

Use this board, because it is a producation board and charging board on one PCB.
If you need some help you can PM me, because i think you speak german, because of the german Amazon links and i have some spare parts
 
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After doing some reading, I have a few questions about charge and play. I would like to have four cells, 2S 2P (I think that's the right notation, basically two 7.4v 'clusters'). What is the best way to go about this, I only see charge and play boards for 2,3, and 4S setups listed in the guide. Is getting a separate Charging board and battery protection circuits the way to go? What exactly is a "smart charger" that people talk about buying, does it remove the need for a charge management board or something? Thanks. New to charge and play, my last portable is a very simple camcorder battery setup, this go around I think I'll use the Panasonic 3,400 mAh batteries. :)
 

jefflongo

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After doing some reading, I have a few questions about charge and play. I would like to have four cells, 2S 2P (I think that's the right notation, basically two 7.4v 'clusters'). What is the best way to go about this, I only see charge and play boards for 2,3, and 4S setups listed in the guide. Is getting a separate Charging board and battery protection circuits the way to go? What exactly is a "smart charger" that people talk about buying, does it remove the need for a charge management board or something? Thanks. New to charge and play, my last portable is a very simple camcorder battery setup, this go around I think I'll use the Panasonic 3,400 mAh batteries. :)
A 2S setup works for any amount of 2S setups in parallel. Li-on batteries need to be charged in a special way which is why you need a smart charger if you are just using a protection circuit. You ALWAYS need battery protection to prevent overcharge and overdischarge. Recently, people have started using more advanced boards like the popular eBay "red board" which has overcharge/overdischarge and the smart charging circuitry on-board so you can just use a regular barrel jack to charge the batteries. And yes the Panasonic 18650s are the way to go.
 
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https://m.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent....ium-Satellite/311721987212?_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent-Balance-Charging-Protection-Board-2S-18650-lithium-Batterie-Cell/172636493434?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20180213162448&meid=50d955c8acda479a849f9fc0c29a7a97&pid=100930&rk=3&rkt=8&sd=311721987212&itm=172636493434&_trksid=p2056116.c100930.m5375

So here is the red eBay board from the link provided in the guide, and the second one is a link to another board that looks the same except it has 4 batteries attached. Is that also an acceptable usage? I am just making sure I understand what you are saying. You are saying that with one 2S charging board I can use an unlimited amount of 2S "packs" as long as they are hooked up right (like in the picture of that second link)?
 

jefflongo

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https://m.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent....ium-Satellite/311721987212?_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent-Balance-Charging-Protection-Board-2S-18650-lithium-Batterie-Cell/172636493434?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=1&asc=20180213162448&meid=50d955c8acda479a849f9fc0c29a7a97&pid=100930&rk=3&rkt=8&sd=311721987212&itm=172636493434&_trksid=p2056116.c100930.m5375

So here is the red eBay board from the link provided in the guide, and the second one is a link to another board that looks the same except it has 4 batteries attached. Is that also an acceptable usage? I am just making sure I understand what you are saying. You are saying that with one 2S charging board I can use an unlimited amount of 2S "packs" as long as they are hooked up right (like in the picture of that second link)?
Yes
 
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After doing some reading, I have a few questions about charge and play. I would like to have four cells, 2S 2P (I think that's the right notation, basically two 7.4v 'clusters'). What is the best way to go about this, I only see charge and play boards for 2,3, and 4S setups listed in the guide. Is getting a separate Charging board and battery protection circuits the way to go? What exactly is a "smart charger" that people talk about buying, does it remove the need for a charge management board or something? Thanks. New to charge and play, my last portable is a very simple camcorder battery setup, this go around I think I'll use the Panasonic 3,400 mAh batteries. :)
According to the batteries guide, smart charging is:

https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?threads/portables-and-batteries-a-guide-and-explanation.2228/ said:
Lithium cells require a special kind of charging when compared to other battery chemistry types. This type of charging is often refered to as “Smart Charging” otherwise known as a Constant Current / Constant Voltage Charging (or a CC/CV Charging). The charge cycle starts with Constant Current while the voltage slowly ramps up. Once the cells reach around 70-80% capacity (around 4.1 volts) the charger goes into a Constant Voltage mode while the current tapers down (see the graph below).
Like jefflongo said, you can put multiple batteries in parallel. Shank mentioned that you could use the Wii net adapter for the charging circuit, in case you choose the red charging bms for your portable. If you decide to only use a protection circuit then you will also need a smart charger.
 
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According to the batteries guide, smart charging is:



Like jefflongo said, you can put multiple batteries in parallel. Shank mentioned that you could use the Wii net adapter for the charging circuit, in case you choose the red charging bms for your portable. If you decide to only use a protection circuit then you will also need a smart charger.
What did you mean Wii net adapter, and/or where is that post at? So I purchased my batteries and that red board, and now I am confused again... So is or is not a smart charger a replacement for the red board if you have protection circuits in place and what will I need to safely charge my batteries if I have the red board wired up?
 

jefflongo

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What did you mean Wii net adapter, and/or where is that post at? So I purchased my batteries and that red board, and now I am confused again... So is or is not a smart charger a replacement for the red board if you have protection circuits in place and what will I need to safely charge my batteries if I have the red board wired up?
If you have the red board that's all you need. You just connect a voltage source between 9 and 15V to the red board and you're good to go.
 
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I have the red board..I've got 4 18650s 3.7v 3200 mAh in 2s2p for 7.4v 6400mah. I have both battery packs wired up to the board and I'm getting around 6.8v on the b+ and b-, and the same if i check the output v and g. When plugged in I'm using a 12v 3a wall charger and everything works fine, battery indicator full but my charging boards light stays green. I had it plugged in all night and the batteries didnt charge at all.. does this seem like the boards charging function is broken?? Maybe a new one is in order?
 

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Are you using a dumb 12v supply, or a smart charger for this?
 
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Smart charger I believe. I actually just checked last night while trying to fix my slider, I'm getting around 8v so almost fully charged. But when I boot the system on battery power it drops to about 6v the system boots but the screen is distorted. And then shortly cuts off
 

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You shouldnt need a smart charger with the red board, as it has one on board. It should push through the charger power to the output when its plugged in. Try to connect the wii as a load, then connect the charger. The led should become red when charging. Then disconnect the charger. The wii should still be powered just fine now, assuming the red board isnt broken. Don’t use a smart charger actually, as it might interfere with some stuff on the red board which needs a minimum of 9v (8.4v smart charger won’t work)
 
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